a fruit cakes experience of a male rights forum..

what is the experience of a fruit cake woman who goes into a male dominated forum? what are her opinions on the people that inhabit them??

lets look on the bad side, first, maybe that way by the time i've finished writting this, all the huffing and puffing might have calmed down a bit...

some of the people in these forums, are men that absolutely hate women. They dont understand us at all. You say hello, and they call you a feminist. You say hi, and you suddenly become a misandrist..

they are not interested in what you say. They dont even read it. Their interest is in proving you wrong, you dont even need an opinion.

they write essays of dull boring uniciteful lectures and assume that they have now made you into the stupid, foolish little girl that they see all women as.... WAKE UP, im sorry baby, i know you fancy 16 year old girls, but not all women are neurotic teenagers..

then there are those that have long since become lost in the clouds of pointless intellectualism..

According to one's insular (severely restrictive) ideological entrenched "vested" beneficial perspective?To question my righteous perspective merely reinforces my position.Retards can be curious? Wiping my arse? You're confused analogy doesn't resonate any practical reality, it merely reinforces my position.

can anyone understand this? does this person have the faintest idea what he is talking about? no, of course not.

and yet, nobody seems to notice, he's one of the guys, he must be clever, because nobody can understand what he says right? i've come across several of these in my time. They normally have hair thats not been washed in a year, and maggots in the sofa..

if anyone ever needed a woman, then these are those people!!!

on the flipside, you do find nice guys, geniune lovely young men, who have been messed up by feminism and its evils. but they are not the majority..

so, i dont have the faintest idea how men communicate with each other, i've tried my best and i always end up arguing with them. Maybe they should go to a feminist forum, to understand how i feel. These guys dont seem to argue with each other. So it must be me...

I suppose i should stop trying to bridge the gender gap really. I dont really know why i do it, i guess im a sociology graduate who has turned into a bored housewife and a part time language teacher who feels alone and bored alot of the time. Most of the interaction i get during the day is with 2 year olds, i suppose i have to vent out my feelings somehow..

i dont think most of them understand just how hard it is to go into a forum inhabited by men who, on the whole, hate women and survive more than a week. Im someone that is not easily intimidated, and i have a quick responce when i see people are out of order. So, im quite proud of myself really, i suppose im doing ok.

I get addicted to reading the responces and i feel upset and happy and guilty and angry... all these things that i guess i dont feel enough in the life i lead outside the internet. Maybe thats the common ground i share with these people.

i dont really know what else to do right now, im kinda running out of ideas to talk about. i tried talking about sex and i dont think that men are really interested in what i think about it. I thought men thought about sex all the time?? what on earth they are thinking about is something i dont really know.

you know what else they do? they sometimes gang up on you..

i suppose they feel angry because they cannot express their inner hatred of women in the outside world, so im an easy target. Outside of the internet we have laws that stop people doing what they like, but on the internet its not quite the same. Maybe if they realised that i get upset when they all gang up on me, and i feel bad when all i feel im doing is trying to communicate and they seem to love arguing with me for it. Maybe they wouldn't dare in real life, maybe its good that they can vent their anger at a wierdo woman who in their opinion doesnt really get it does she?????

you know, i think im getting closer to the reason why i've been involved in this kind of thing lately. I really believe that inside every man, is a scared little boy who doesnt know how to express himself anymore. Nobody sees that little boy that he is inside, but instead they see this big, powerful, man.

How the hell can he express his pain, his fear, his insecurity, when everyone else is looking to him for security and comfort.

i really do feel sorry for men when they are in this situation. but you know, when i try to talk to them about it, when i try to get inside their feelings and worries, they tell me that i am callous, self-centred and emtionally bankrupt. What can i do? maybe i should just leave them all to become rambos, and duck while they kill each other.. it would be a terrible shame...

the mens movement has missed lots of things... why are they not learning to express their vulnerability, why do they hide behind ridiculous intellectual language, and hatred of women?? what is stopping them from saying.. hell we are humans too, and we need looking after and we need people who care about us?? why are they not telling women that women dont have to be feminists, and hate the world...

the more they get into it, the further they seem to get from saving themselves. They hate marriage, they hate love i suppose. They hate the idea of having children and understanding that not everyone is out to get them..

this is what i make of it, im just one person, and you know what, i think they like me underneath all the nastiness they throw at me. you know why i think that?? because i tend to like them... (and because only a fruit cake could go into a forum where they all argue with you and call you names and still think that they like you!!!)

i enjoyed it so far, so whatever i say in here guys, i hope you dont take it too seriously and too much to heart. You know, inside every feminist woman, is a scared little girl who wants to find love too.

I have a secret feminist plot hidden under my bed!!

well, i survived about 32 posts on stand your ground, and they all turned on me. I guess this is starting happen on the new forum?! oh well, ¿asi es la vida, no?

what these guys keep telling me, and, i am listening to them

is that

i dont answer their questions, that
i dont back anything up with facts.

I really have tried my best to do what they ask, but im not so sure thats really what they want?

i cant back up arguments with facts, really, because i dont feel like im really making any arguments.

for example.
Fred X says that men get called up and die during wars.
i say, Fred, i dont see you on the front line (there is a war in iraq right?)

how am i supposed to back that up with facts? take a picture of fred at his PC to prove that he's not on the front line?

i think what ultimately they dont like about what i am doing, is that i am not really against them. Their view of women, in my opinion, at this point, is that we are all "femcunts" or "femhags" who live in a different world to them, basking in our privilidges, spewing out hatred of men, and blaming them for everything we dislike about our world.

i dont fit into that category, so i must have some hidden agenda, some secret feminist plot hidden in my rucksack or under my bed.. well, i've searched my soul deeply and i still havent found that plot yet.. maybe they are right, i dont know. Maybe i am a feminist, and i never realised it? but then, maybe they hate women, and they never realised it either..

i suppose we are all learning aren't we?

What they havent heard despite however many times i say it, is that i actually agree with them for the most part, and that I really think that things have gone to far. Men DO need to stand together and fight injust laws.

however, its still ok to have fun along the way isnt it? apparently not, for some of them.

My website is not about support for the mens movement, they are more than capable of doing that themselves. I suppose im commenting on them from an outside perpesctive, why? because i am fascinated by men. Ive always been a bit of a rebel without a cause, so, i suppose in this world of feminism, i HAD to be the one that tried to understand men! when all my female sisters hated them!

I also think if they understood women a bit better, then we might end up with a nicer world at the end of it. Im trying to understand men better, i fail miserably lots of the time, other times i am right, and they tell me i am wrong.

you know i dont think we are that difficult to understand? the problem is that feminism has MADE us difficult to understand. Nobody sees us as individuals anymore, not even ourselves. We are "Women" not, "a woman". God i hate that, but i do know that lots of women like it.

the key to understanding the opposite sex i think lies in understanding first of all, that we are all totally different from each other. We then have to understand that we are different from each and every member of our OWN sex. I dont think, the mens movement has grasped this yet.. its not surprising... feminism NEVER did..

still i can only try and when the next lot hate me, i'll find another bunch of them to poke at with my chocolate pogo stick.

a males guide to my sexuality part 2

im not going to pretend that this is a good, organised and well thought out post, but here it is:

another thing that is definately not talked about enough is the way we feel with each other in the bedroom... yes, im talking about sex

when you go on a first date with a man, and things go well, you might go back home with him, or more scarily, to his place.

well, lets get things straight.. the power between us starts there. Who's house are we at. If im going back to his place, then sex, is going to happen isnt it? if im taking the risk that he is a total nut, then i might as well risk it right?

does it happen like that? no. Guys get worked up really quickly, and i think this can go two ways.

one) if i want to have sex, then great. i dont really have to do anything, i never have to put my true feelings on the outside, and he makes it happen. brill, everyone is happy.. or

two) for some reason i panic and decide that i DONT want sex. he gets more and more worked up, and the more he wants it, the more i dont want it. He gets hurt, and feels rejected, and i feel like a total sex moron, like a 10 year old girl who has not ever learnt how to control herself yet.

an important thing here for guys to understand, is that when i say i dont want sex, i am not choosing that. If i was to have sex, i would go through all the emotions of being raped, and although it would not be rape (the poor guy hasnt got a clue), it would really, really mess me up. Im not choosing it, sometimes, for some reason that i dont understand, i just CANT do it emotionally. I dont bloody understand it, and dont tell me that im hiding some feminist agenda. I have really tried to understand this one and i just cant. maybe some woman somewhere else has come up with that answer.

i was reading a blog yesterday, by canadian (on my blog list) and he was saying that all guys really want, is for someone to suck their dick, while they watch other people having sex? Yes, i think thats what he was saying, apparently, thats it, thats what it is to be a man. Well great, but im missing something here.

if thats what it is to be a man, what is it to be a woman? Do i like watching other people have sex? er.. depends on who it is, no.. wait, no, i dont really. no, actually i do.. you know what, i dont actually know. I suppose i do admire men in that way, because they seem very focused about what they want sexually. Do you like watching other people eat food?

what turns me on? chest hair, stubble. what turns me off, me, the thought that i am being turned of, turns me off.

i like the tension that develops on a night out.
i like people sucking my nipples, hard. it gives a sharp pain, but yet its a dull pain that feels good?

i like wearing sexy clothes. i like men watching me when i do that. i like putting my hands on his chest and pretending that i am somehow bigger and more powerful than him.

wow this is difficult, i never realised how little i knew about myself sexually.

hold on, i was supposed to be talking about communication between the sexes wasnt i?

ok, when i say no, i do mean no (although that no, can be made into a yes, if my emotional state changes) this is the biggest problem that men and women face i think.

can men say no? yes, i think they can. although im guessing. They can certainly say no, after they feel rejected by me, but its more a fuck off you bitch no, rather than a no, i dont want sex no.

the wierdest bit about sex is after a guy ejaculates, thats it.. i sit and watch while it appears he goes through every emotion under the sun. I've talked a guy about that before and he told me that he has a really quick mood swing.. wierd..

i suppose after this initial process goes past, we get used to each other and the problems disapear more, but i suppose, that means that so does the excitement of something new and risky.

canadian says on his website that men really do think about sex all the time. I hardly ever think about sex. i wish i thought about it more. When i was 17-18 i suppose i thought about it alot more? but i didnt really know what it was then.

i think the morale of this story is, that if you can understand anything of what i have just written, then you are doing VERY well. congratulations, because this woman doesnt have the faintest clue about what her sexuality is or how it works. (but at least, im willing to admit it)

whats so bad about pluto??

<--- Alpha-Centauri, closest star to the sun

let me apologize, not all men are from pluto. Someone said to me that to say men were from pluto is a feminist way of saying that they are all wierd, like, they are further away from earth and therefore less in touch with reality..

well.. you know, my page is called from the planet neptune, and pluto, is an escaped satelite of neptune isnt it? so, maybe we should get on well then? I love astronomy, its my favourite thing, whenever i feel bad, i look up at the sky and think, this is a planet, and im this tiny thing on the planet, and out there, is space, and we know nothing really about it.. It kinda makes me feel better. My dad taught me the names of all the bright stars in the sky. I quite like pluto, but its not my favourite planet, i'll admit that much.

i think people should get to know me before they make assumptions about my "feminist tendancies"

anyway, i was feeling a bit upset last night when i wrote the below article, because i dont think men understand just how intimidating they can be sometimes. They have a bigger physical presence, in reality, and i think in cyberspace too. Its part of being a man that you are big, and part of being a woman that they are bigger than you.

so where is this going? i have been involved in a forum lately, here is the link i you want to read it http://mathews.me.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4961

i've come to the conclusion that lots of men dont really understand their feelings very well, they tend to intellectualise them, and objectify themselves. I dont really know why they do this, i suppose, if you lose an argument, you dont get hurt so much? if you argue as if you were someone else, then they cant get down into your most intimate feelings can they?

either that, or men are from alpha-centaurai, and really have no feelings, are empty-vessels that spew out dictatory lectures on what superior creatures they are. Please guys, let me know which one it is, im really trying here...

im starting to understand this movement a bit better.. what we have, is alot of nice men, who have been treated badly by women for whatever reason, they are pissed off. Rightly so. Im scared that they are going to do protect other men who arent quite so nice, at the expense of women who are. Guys, i do believe in what you are doing. Men are not allowed to sit on aeroplanes next to children anymore. This really is a world gone mad, and whenever i've talked to men while out with my children, they are really fun. Men that like children are pretty cool really, they are easy to relate too.

these men have been stuffed by aload of bitchy idiot women, and lots of similarly idiotic men, who here the world paedophile, and screw up any relationship normal men might have with children who are not their own.

just remember, guys, feminists want you to view things along the lines of gender. They want you to think that all women are the same. Dont fall for their propaganda. Lots of women are thick, and spew out feminist stuff, but they dont really believe in it. If you learn how to communicate with them, perhaps you could help your movement. But, of course, that would mean becoming, anecdotal, and expressing feelings.... scared are we?

men, you have along way to go...

men are from pluto

forget mars, men are from pluto.

it has just occured to me, that i really dont understand men AT ALL.

i make a joke and they reply with an essay saying why im wrong

i try and help them and they tell me im the enemy

i guess that there must be somewhere in their heads that clicks on when they are talking to men, and clicks off when they talk to women? i dont know.. please men, correct me if im wrong.

well, im not beaten im going to try more from now on. and if any men read this, it is NOT an attack on you, i just dont understand you very well, but at least im trying.

I think we love each other even if sometimes it is difficult to translate what we are expressing.

also, kinda changing subject a bit, there are several fallacies in the male rights movements that men should think about:

men are more logical.

i think thats not true, they are just more logical when it suits them.
in fact most "macho" activities actually are based on proving just how illogical you are
for example:

Supporting a football team to the death that never wins

Driving a car to fast to prove yourself
shooting 32 university students and killing yourself

men earned the right to vote

no, SOME men, 100's of years ago earned the right to vote. Men today did no more than any women did. They kinda forgot that while they took all the credit for what a group of unrelated men did 100 years ago.

i wont marry! im going to live alone!

how many times do they say this?
i dont believe that men can just turn of their emotions, maybe they would like us to think that. Men love women and women love men. I think the people that advocate this, advocate it because:

1) no woman in her right mind would EVER marry them (see gonzokid, SYG forum) and its better to be seen as not wanting to marry, than not BEING ABLE too..
2) they have been hurt somewhere by a woman, and they say they are not going to marry to try and hurt women, as a whole group
3) they are scared of marrying a woman that will then divorce them and steal everything. Well, women are scared of getting married too. You just have to make sure you dont end up with that type of woman! its not that difficult duh!

Men standing up for themselves?

Someone asked me to start a thread in an anti-misanry forum to talk about the mens movement. I nearly did but then i got really nervous and decided to write it in here instead.

what would i say to them?

the problem i have is that i dont know yet if i am an enemy or a friend of their movement. The part to which i am a friend, is that I really really want to see a world, in which men can take on feminine qualities. That being a male, is opened up to new things. I think that they have been denied this, and miss out because of it. I think that sometimes, there is a massive gap between what each individual man wants.

the part to which i am an enemy, is the men who want a return to a world in which men are dominant again. Macho man could return but this time he's going to kill all the women that get in his way, instead of showing a simpathetic ear like 50 years ago. Masculinity is closed down even further.

try driving in a tiny red peogeot 205, down a busy spanish motorway.

i get scared when i go past 90km/h. and you know what, in spain, where feminism hasnt really happend, and men ARE men... if you are on a motorway and there is only two lanes, and the overtaking lane is occupied and a big lorry comes up behind you?

These macho men will mow you and your children out of their way. They dont care about you, they really dont. I've never been so scared in my life, and it happens again, and again and again until you have driven the 25 km between Santander and Torrelavega.

I think its because they have never really seen feminism. If they hate their wife they beat her up. Spain has a real macho problem. I dont know, maybe they just want to prove to the world that they drive faster than you. Is this the male sense of logic they talk about? Not very logical really is it.

a little red roller skate!

Male logic, it seems, applies only when they choose to apply it. Something that men could learn.

Spain and Britain are too very different countries, but masculinity, can be as dangerous, and scary as what feminism has done.

So i think this: Masculine extremes and feminine extremes they can all go to hell as far as i am concerned.

so, am i a friend of a mens movement? absolutely not if it means that men become like rambo again. Some women find them attractive, i just find them thick. Men complain that the nice guy never gets the girl. Well, they never thought that macho man gets the rat girl did they?

many within the mens movement talk about not getting married, about rejecting western women. Well, that means they are rejecting me, and my daughters without giving us any chance. I suspect that alot of these guys are filled with hatred of women, maybe because they have not had much luck, or have been rejected at some point in their life. Men, let go of this, every woman is different, and some, are warm and caring. Dont draw lines along gender, that girl was a bitch. The next one doesnt have to be. Do you really believe we are all the same, as feminism has tried to convince you?

neither does rejection have to mean isolation. Isolation is what the radical feminists have. You know, some of them are so lost in their own self-righteousness, that they put up with being a lesbian, when they are really heterosexual. Thats probably why lesbo relationships are often quite violent. Imagine that, a whole life never having sex with someone that turns you on. You know what, radical lesbians can have their violent sexually frustrated utopia. I just hope that men dont make the same mistake. Men and women are good together.

i think that i want men to discover their inner femininity. Women discovered their inner man 50 years ago in britain. Now they are in a very good position. No women's life is perfect of course, but they can wear, act, and do masculine things, whenever they feel like it. Some choose not to, but then they have the choice. Men on the other hand, have only the old male role to fall back on, and it gets smaller and more restrained with each and every attack by feminism and its mangina friends.

i am scared that hatred of women is going to lead to the wrong men getting in charge of the mens movement. They will promote only super-macho values and the biggest losers? everybody. Gentle, emotional men, where do they fit into this macho utopia? do all women have to become prostituted rat girls?

i just dont understand where its going i suppose i should ask really shouldn't i?

insecurities, sex, and very fast trains..

i feel tired and depressed. you know, when you feel so tired that you know when you go to bed that you're not going to be able to sleep, because you are too tired?

i travelled half way across europe yesterday, starting in spain, going through france, and then finally under the english channel on a VERY fast train, and after running and sweating my way across central london just making my bus, home. I stink, my hair is a total mess and i feel like shit. Is it just me that feels like that, or is it real, does everyone else see the total disaster of a day im having? do i see it when they are having one??

you know when i feel like that, i look at my face in the mirror and think, fucking hell you're so ugly. You have all these bags under your eyes, wrinkles on your forehead and eyes, big nose, fat cheeks and thin, crap coloured and crap cut hair. Oh yeah, my tits are too small, i look like a man and i dont have any hips and god... aaahh i just want to get it out i guess this is a good place.

I know objectively that tommorow morning i'll wake up, feel better and all the horrible aspects that seemed so big tonight, will seem unimportant and irrelevant. Some wont even be there anymore.. Its happend to me too many times before, and im a wise old choco woman. Hell, only a few days ago i felt like the super sexy sex queen from sex city, planet super gorgeous. Why do we do this to ourselves? or is it just me that does it too myself. This world needs a bit more honesty doesnt it mi amor.

do men do this to themselves or is it a sanctuary reserved only for females, or just me alone? do men understand that i feel like this, do they care? am i just another insecure whinging ugly flat chested bitch? would they admit it if they were just like me really? i just dont know that answer to that. hell.. i like football isnt that good enough??

i guess what im asking for here is some kind of answer from this male movement. Im hoping that what i believe about men, will turn out to be true. That they are as fucking insecure as i am sometimes, and that yes, they are not scared to tell me about it. I listen, i do.

throught life maybe we get attached to groups of people we think are going to save us from ourselves, that are going to remove all those insecurities and somehow make every day much easier. Clothes, Musicians, Sex, Films, Food, Internet, bigger tits, thicker hair, internet chats, webcams, blogs, forums and Football teams. Are they going to be the answer? I suppose they each do their bit to fill in what in reality is just an empty vacuum of nothingness. Life, i mean. Lets face it, there is only the meanings we give it. It has no inherent meaning does it. Why do i feel like this, for what reason?

Are my children going to grow up and have their own insecurities? are they going to be as pathetic as i am at dealing with them? well.. i guess im not that bad AT LEAST i know they go away (dont i?)

what is male insecurity like, is it like mine? am i asking too much from men to talk to me about them?

its the circumstances, not the gender

i think that alot of the problems in mis-communication between men and women are that they find it difficult to step into the other's shoes.

alot of women get very demoralised, confused and angry, when their man does something on his own, which in the case of men can predominantly be porn, or masterbation related. They dont see it for what it is, they feel jealous of the women he is looking at, they feel deflated because he is supposed to be with them, not looking at the women in the porno. It means for women that they have no control what is going on in his life for a period of time. They cannot choose which image he looks at, or what he does while he's looking at, which they can during sex with him.

what they dont understand, is that life as a man, must be very hard sometimes, and i am convinced that pornography forms some kind of release for men, they escape from the real world for a few minutes. The women they look at do exactly what they want, they are in control of their own pleasure and for how ever long it takes (and some men can take FOREVER) they dont have to think about worries and problems.

i dont think alot of women really understand this, they think when their man looks at porn, that its somehow about them. That the guy is escaping from them, that he is somehow using his sexuality as a weapon against them. They dont realise what he gets from it, they only see a locked door. The mind worries about what it does not know..











what is he doing in there????

men, if you see a locked door, and you know your girlfriend, who you love, is inside and you have a pretty good idea she is looking at other men, how would you feel? worried, scared, inadequate, rejected?

the whole situation is dictated by circumstances. In this circumstance the man is the one who knows whats going on, the woman the one who doesn't. It has nothing to do with gender at all. Most men given the same situation, would feel the same way as the woman.

Women also need sexual release too of course. From my experience, probably based again, on circumstance rather than gender, female sexuality has developed in a different way. I think the control women like is too have people look at them but also be in control. So, for a man locked away in his room looking at porn, the female equivalent is wearing something that shows of your body a bit, something that makes people look at you. I know what this is like, only the other day i was teaching, i had a low cut top on and one of my students (male) while i was trying to explain something couldn't help but try and look at my tits. Poor guy, its my fault just as much as it is his. I felt a bit embarrased because i didnt realise it was so obvious, and he just got on with things. In this is where i get my own release, my own de-stress session. I go home and think, well actually, i do feel like a woman sexually again, i dont need to do anything about it now. It then disapears and comes back again a few days later, in exactly the same way as it does to the guy i guess? I think what im trying to say, is that female sexuality, is not really a private realm, its not something they can do in private. Whats the point in me looking at myself in a mirror? its much better to have someone looking at me. But the end result, is the same, pornography, or low cut tops - we get a release of stress and we feel ok again about ourselves for a bit.

There is obviously a difference between the two though. Men locking themselves in a room, is generally considered wierd, whereas a woman showing of her body a bit, is not. Thats where it is wrong. So, the lesson here is for women.

Let him get on with it, just like he lets you get on with wearing clothes that make you feel good about yourself. Remember, if circumstance where different, it could be you locked in the room, and he could be the socially acceptable face of sexuality, just like you are now. Be grateful, and let him get on with it.

what have i seen so far?

what have i seen so far in the male rights movement?

i´ve spent a few months reading various blogs in here, and i´ve taken part in two forums so far. The first one i found was called Askmen.com. I was surprised to read some comments in their that werent the normal male garbage that surrounds that type of thing (i.e. about blonde haired women, cars, and other boring things).

It seemed to me there were several men out there that were trying to start some sort of movement against feminism, and against the stupid idiot stereotype that men seem to have inhereted lately. It kinda gave me a new way of looking at things. I always found it strange that i could talk to men about things that affected their lives, i.e. rape, children, women... and they normally seemed immensely detached. I just supposed that men were not capable of personal thoughts. I think thats what alot of women think, they dont really get why men refuse to take control of their lives. but since i went in there i realised a few things. I liked reading some comments, one or two posters actually made me smile when i read their posts, so i got deeper and deeper into it.

i learnt what a blog was and then started reading the blogs of the members i had found, fieldmarshall watkins, christian j and one or two others. I liked what these guys were saying so i continued to read, and from there, i have found other blogs and im now kinda addicted to reading them, i cant wait to read the next post they write. It lead me to the website standyourground.com, which i entered assuming it would be something similar, but something i realised quickly there -

my nickname was decidly female (Fruit_Cake) and suddenly everyone hated me it didnt really matter what i said. LC_Vega is a pretty androgenous name, which is why i use it normally. It really knocked me back and i spent a week or two thinking, oh my god what have i got myself into, im selling my soul here. These guys HATE women. It scared the hell out of me. Since then i´ve decided, that perhaps i shouldn´t go around telling men how to lead their own movement. Now i think my role will just to be encourage, if indeed i have any role at all. Im still working that part out. (i have to do something to fill in the endless empty vacuum of life)

I think one thing that guys involved in this movement should consider, is what they want, and where they are going too? I think there are quite a few guys involved in this who have had bad experiences with women, and have confused that with a male rights movement.

Another thing is, that scares me most of all, is that OK, at the moment at least in the english speaking western world, Feminism is dominant. What kind of world would it be if it were dominanted by macho men? The guys in this movement have to be VERY VERY careful what they create. It seems alot of the guys i read would hate a world of masculine extremes, perhaps as much as they hate the feminist one?

as a female, it is very difficult to contribute to a male movement. Lots of them try, they mostly fail. I dont think they get it really. They dont understand that its difficult for a man to trust a woman in this movement. For my part, i think the best and maybe, only, thing i can offer to this movement is to ask the question to all men involved -

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM THIS MOVEMENT and WHERE DO YOU THINK IT IS GOING TO??

i ask that question because im not 100% sure that all of the guys out there have really thought about this one.

a message for my critics...

where do i stand?

where do i stand, what are my own motivations and goals and my reasons for supporting a men´s rights movement?

i think every woman, and probably, most men, should outline their directions before starting to take part in the male rights movements battle against the world they find themselves in.

as a woman, one reason i could give, is that if i were to have male children (something that has not happend to me so far) it would not be a fit world for them to live in. Decent women love their children so much that they are willing to fight against what is in their own interest. As a woman i would support a mens movement that restricted my own life in favour of my sons. Furthermore, as a parent of two female children, the over-reaction that could come about once feminism has been exposed is also scary. The one thing feminism never had was physical power. Im scared a male movement may encompass a movement of hatred against women, and make their lives hell. My children are not to blame for feminism, just as men born 30 years ago were not to blame for the things feminists blamed them for.

second, i think that the men at the forefront, and i mean AT THE FOREFRONT of this movement (not stagnating morons like those in Stand your ground), are really the most impressive things this world has. It must take a massive step to realise that all the feminist crap you are told is wrong, and an even bigger one to stand up against it. If evolution is right, then surely a woman would fall in love with a man that was COMPLETELY in touch with reality? Only a man who understands his surroundings would be a perfect partner to be with? I think the guys at the forefront of this movement are really self aware, and intouch with reality. Its so sexy.

to be completely in touch with reality from my point of view, you cannot be a gun slinging macho man, or a pink handbag wearing mangina. Its somewhere in the middle. I guess, ultimately, i quite desire this type of guy, so there is the reason. Its a good one isnt it?

Where do i think the mens movement should go?

i´ve been called lots of names over the last few months, (feminist and troll, amongst them, all in stand your ground) if you want to see what i said look up the name fruit_cake on the website stand your ground.

im not saying i am right, i never did, but i think that the mens movement has to in some way mimic what feminism did for women. It opened up their world, they moved into areas that were not seen as womenly. Today women can practically do anything they want. I dont think that that is wrong. What i think men deserve is something similar, along side a massive readjustment in other rights.

What im saying is for me that certainly a part of the male rights movement should be about men taking on femininity within themselves, i.e. being able to wear what they want and act how they want without fear of being called gay or ostracised.

they deserve equal rights in every way. 6 months maternity leave for women? ok, so 6 months for men too.

Equality for all. If women want equal pay at wimbledon, then, they have to beat the men. Otherwise they can get paid less, because frankly, they are less able. We dont have fat peoples wimbledon do we.

Otherwise, there are obviously other areas that men have been pushed into a corner and they need to escape. Divorce settlements, parental rights, working rights, sexual discrimination.. and YES, rape.

Rape has to be made into the crime it actually is. Unwanted intercourse. Its in the same category as punching someone in the face. Its not very nice, but no more than that. I think the mens movement has to attack the sensasionalisation of rape, made by feminists for political goals.

I´ve argued with other people in this movement, both men and women, who to me, appear to be arguing for some sort of cowboy, super macho world. Do men REALLY want to be pushed further into the corner of machoness? Are you really that tough guys? i dont know, but i dont think you are.

from what i have seen, there is a split within this movement.

this is the question i would like to know the answer to guys who read this. What do you want? do you want to promote cowboy masculininty, survival of the fittest, im a tough superman who does not get hurt by anyone, or, like i hope is correct, do you want to embrace what has been stolen from you - your right to enjoy femininity AS WELL as masculinity. Just as many women now do, accept the other way round.

i´ve been called a feminist before, because i think men should embrace femininity (note feminINITY, not feminiSM). I think the way that men can win this war for the good of all, is too take over femininity, just as feminists have taken over masculinity.

thats where i stand, it might change over time, but its important that people know where you are coming from.

Stand your ground.com - watch out, these people are not who they say they are.

Stand your ground.com is supposedly a male rights movement website.

the reality is that it is run by a gang of 4 or 5 people, who as it happens, i dont think are particularly well thought-out, that see themselves as the leaders of this movement. They dont want to budge out of your way. Their opinions are not at the forefront of where this movement should be. They are a massive danger to this movement and they need to be outed for what they are before they take more control of it.

i shall mention their names here, so that other people be aware of them.

Gonzokid - this person is a gun slinging cowboy. he wants men to hate the world just like he does. Dont fall for his macho bravadery. Watchout guys, he wants to drag you all down to his level. He has a personal agenda, and does not care about you.

Biscuit Queen - side kick for gonzokid. A Woman fighting for mens rights? be suspiscous, VERY suspicious. I will outline all my own reasons for my support of the mens movement as soon as i can so men can judge me friend or foe. Biscuit queen sees herself as just that, the queen. She is a lady macbeth that is pulling all the strings. Watch out for her lads.

Dr E. this is the moderator - be careful because he is not impartial, he will support his friends, (see above members) and pretend to be impartial. Bad moderator, bad website..

as soon as i get more time i will outline my own reasons for supporting this movement, as a woman.

who is Lucia Vega?

WHO IS LUCIA VEGA?

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Q: is that your real name?
A: Lucia Vega is my pen name, its not my real name

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Q: why are you writing this diary?
A: Im stuck in most of the day with two small children. It stops me going mad? or does it make me worse? I want to find if there are any people out there, that can identify with me. Its a difficult one isnt it?

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Q: do you hate men?
A: no, i can live with them, i can live without them. We dont have any men on planet neptune yet. Some of them are ignorant pigs, and others are wonderful, but hey, thats life.. Im married to an earthling, and he's god. End of.

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Q: do you hate women?
A: nope
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Q: are you crazy?
A: i used to think so, but these days im starting to think im pretty normal and boring really. Is that good?

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Q: whats it like living on planet neptune?

A: the best, we have no macho men, no aggressive domineering monsters or anything like that. Actually we all sing songs, like the wheels on the bus!

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Q: what are you trying to achieve by writing this?
A: I dont know... stay tuned until i find out! We could be some time..
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Q: whats your favourite colour?

A: yellowy orange, like the sunset! You can tell alot about a person by their favourite colour.. Whats your favourite colour??

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Q: whats the best thing in life?

A: having children and watching them grow, closely followed by having a wardrobe full of clothes that reflect you mood that day.

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Q: where's it all going to end?
A: not sure, not thought about ending it yet. Things change don't they?

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Q: so, what message are you trying to tell me, Lucia??

A: that you can be my friend, if you want to!